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"Conversations" UNSATURATED REPROBATES UNDER THEBAPTISM OF THE SPIRIT
May 10, 2021 This conversation follows a home group teaching comparing the possibility of incomplete regeneration with the possibility of incomplete ("unsaturated") baptism under the Holy Spirit. [Access to the complete teaching is available to those participating in our weekly home teaching ministry called "StoneBuilders."]
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Sunday, May 9, 2021 1:38 AM, littleflock wrote:
Hello StoneBuilders & friends!
Thursday night we took a wide historical look at how the baptism of the Holy Spirit was restored to the church the last 150 years, especially noting the difference between His inner sanctifying work and His supernaturally empowered giftings. By this we saw how different and incomplete our experiences in the Spirit's fullness may be, explaining why there can be such discrepancy between one's anointing for ministry and his true fruitful behavior in Christ. Here too is the link to the book The Transformation and Anointing that I referenced for further interest.
------ Original Message ------ From:
"joelmreed"
<Ireland > Hi Chris, I am still unclear on a few things regarding this topic. You're the first person I've ever heard teach from this perspective...so I'm sure that's a big reason why I'm still struggling to process it all.
At times, I seem to hear that a person cannot be "born again" until he has experienced the transformational, saturating work of the Holy Spirit (which in my understanding is often subsequent to salvation); at other times I seem to hear that new birth occurs at the moment of salvation (which I understand to be when a person repents and puts all their trust in Christ) when the "seed" of Christ is put in us and we are given new identity in our spirit-man.
I'm struggling with what it means for the individual who has repented and believed but not experienced this baptizing work. Are you suggesting that they will just naturally fall away and be given their lot with unbelievers or that God will outright reject them? Will some be able to make it to the status of "overcomer" without this special work of the Holy Spirit?
I understand that it is possible for those who have "tasted" to fall away...so my confusion relates to those who have not willfully abandoned their faith or confession and are not willfully chasing sin (or perhaps they have temporary experiences of "backsliding" and returning, etc.) Are they only fooling themselves that they'll have a place in heaven?
Blessings, Joel
‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ On Sunday, May 9, 2021 6:51 PM, littleflock wrote: Hi Joel, thanks for the questions. They are good, and show that I need to distill things out more clearly. So let me have at it again here.
I was discussing two parallel works of salvation, the first being new spirit birth through the seed of the word in the repentant blood-washed believer, the second being the subsequent baptizing work of the Holy Spirit that goes on to "germinate" the fruit of that seed throughout our souls. My thrust was to show that the same incompleteness that can occur in the first work may also occur in the second work.
In the first work, one may receive a blood-washing forgiveness without actually receiving and becoming regenerated by the seed of the word to become a new creation. This happens due to lack of full repentance in the heart (ie, a "dishonest" heart a la the parable of the sower) and results in a mental / emotional conversion only, and, being absent the actual seed of regeneration, results in falling away / departure from the faith back into damnation. That is the message of II Peter 2, not to mention Hebrews 6.
Similarly, in the subsequent baptism of the Spirit, one may receive an immersion into the Spirit as a truly regenerated believer resulting in certain anointings like tongues or other gifts, but can fail in the discipleship surrender necessary for that baptism to result in a sanctifying soul saturation that actually severs the remaining root power of sin in the soul, thus leaving regenerated Spirit baptized believers as carnal / immature and defeated in their contest with sin, though they are still genuinely born again and don't fall away. That is the thrust of the Corinthian letter we looked at.
Between the two experiences of regeneration and Spirit baptism, you have the multitude of believers who never seek or receive the Spirit's subsequent baptism, period. Their result is the same as those who do receive it, but only as a superficial immersion. They remain carnal / immature and defeated in their struggle against sin. But they remain born again and eternally saved. For these however who do not enter into the sanctifying soul saturation of the Spirit, the result is a loss of inheritance.
Now, where the further confusion between the works of regeneration and Spirit baptism arises however is in the overlap wherein it is possible for the same unregenerated "dogs" and "sows" of II Peter 2 to go on and also receive the superficial immersion into the Holy Spirit, all from which they later depart into immorality, though their gifts remain in operation. This is where the messages of Peter and Paul converge, as well as Hebrews 6 referring to those who having "tasted of the powers of the world to come," fall away never to return. This reality creates an uncomfortable parallel between truly regenerated believers who, never entering the Spirit's immersion or only into an "unsaturated" immersion of the Spirit, go on to live defeated carnal lives in Christ yielding skimpy weak fruit, and those never regenerated sows who entering the same superficial immersion still have gifts, yet fall away by practicing and defending regular immoral behavior. (Judas perfectly exemplifies one who was never regenerated yet believed in Christ and received the Spirit's external power from Him.)
In the above parallel, the weakly-fruitful truly regenerated believers and the anti-fruitful unregenerated believers, anointed or not, are difficult to distinguish, which is why Paul has to end up conceding, "[only] the Lord knows those who are His." It is therefore vital for anyone who calls himself a believer but exhibits chronic carnality to examine the completeness of his initial repentance in receiving Christ and then his completeness in consecrating himself to receive the saturating fullness of the Holy Spirit for abiding in the inner, satisfyingly fruitful rest in Christ's love. Because that fruitful place of abiding is the only place that assurance of eternal salvation is maintainable, as Jesus discusses in John 15.
So there is a lot here to process. But that is the way salvation is. We must hunger for a complete understanding of this "so great salvation" according to all that Christ and the apostles have to teach us. We can't rely on a verse here or there or a single past tense experience to capture the whole of what God wants us to understand about it. Most of what we have been taught and believe is very piecemeal and incomplete. And that has driven my own desperate search over the last 45 years to grasp as much of the whole as possible.
If there is still anything unclear here or that I didn't address, please let me know and I will try to account for it. But also please consult my book in the thread below.
Blessings to you and yours!
Chris A. ------ Original Message ------ From:
"joelmreed"
<Ireland > Chris, thank you for such a detailed and concise explanation. I think I'm tracking with you now. The idea of an unbeliever having the H.S.'s anointing is a fairly new idea for me to process but I can see some Biblical evidence for it. I've revisited Hebrews 6 many times over the last decade in an attempt to fully grasp who it describes. I've also managed to miss the fact 'til now that the 2Peter passage is also addressing those who listen to false teachers, not just the false teachers themselves.
We have experienced a great deal of this incomplete regeneration with those we work with here in Ireland. We (my family) are working through our own personal lack in regard to the H.S.'s saturating baptismal work in our own lives. Thanks for your prayers and teaching in this regard! I started reading your book.
Thanks again! Joel &&&&&&&&&&
Chris Anderson First
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