"Conversations" ROMAN CATHOLICISM: THE LARGER PICTURE
September 15, 2023 ... (This
is written to Sue..., but I'm copying the rest of our
close intercessory crew on this since you've all been in
on these discussions about Sue's witnessing to her mother.
This will give us all a larger platform for how to pray
into this with Sue. So ponder and be edified!)
...
I am led to jot down some thoughts for you about the
problem with Roman Catholicism from a larger viewpoint.
That viewpoint has to do with how we know what is true
about Jesus Christ to begin with.
Do you remember the old game show "To Tell the Truth"? Three people are given the same name, but only one of them is actually the real person with that name. The other two are imposters. The panelists on the show had to ask questions to try to tell the real man from the two imposters. Similarly, there is and can only be one true "Jesus
Christ." The spiritual problem though is that it is
possible to use the same name to describe someone else
entirely. It is possible for imposter spirits to pose as
and create a false projection of the true Jesus Christ.
They can take on the name of "Jesus," but it does
not mean they are the true spirit of the real Jesus. Paul
referred to this in 2 Corinthians 11:4 as "another
Jesus" by means of a "different spirit." (In
Galatians 1 he calls it "another gospel.")
In the gospels, Jesus Himself said that many would come
after Him who would pose as imposters. This did not just
refer to actual people. It referred to imposter spirits
operating on and through people. There would not only be
those who falsely claimed to be Christ, but who, while not
proclaiming to be Christ themselves, would be preaching a
false Jesus Christ. This shows up later in the letters of
John who describes people presenting a false Jesus, who he
calls "antichrists."
Because all this is true, we have to ask, how then
can we know who the true Jesus Christ is and who is it
that is preaching that true Jesus Christ? The
answer is found by examining the only authority we have
for portraying to us who Jesus Christ was / is. That
authority is the testimony about the life of Jesus Christ
presented in the four gospels and by Christ's immediate
followers in their apostolic writings after the gospels.
This means Peter, John, James, Jude, Luke and most of all,
Paul. There is no other authority for knowing who
Jesus Christ historically was and spiritually IS.
This in turn means that whatever we believe about Jesus
Christ and what He taught has to align with the minds
of these writers as they presented Him and His teaching.
It is not enough to just know what the writers said. We
have to know the mind from which they wrote. This
means we have to take into account the entirety of the
contexts of what they wrote in the further context of
what they would have understood Jesus Himself to be
saying and to be meaning. This next means that
unless our beliefs about what they said fully accounts for
those contexts, then we are not believing in the true
Jesus Christ, even though we are using His name and
even His words as given to us by the apostles. We are
believing in "another Jesus" according to a
different [false] spirit.
All cults have this same problem in common. They argue
using the name of Jesus and the gospel and apostolic
writings about Jesus to advance what they believe, but
they all do so apart from the context of mind of the
actual writers. They create their own contexts out
of the apostles' words. Paul calls this "handling the
word of God deceitfully." They twist the apostles'
words to say what the apostles could never have believed
to be true in real time.
Moreover, they claim to have a divine authority to add onto (even superseding the authority of) what the first apostles wrote, even though the apostles provided no chain whatsoever for passing on their unique founding authority to anyone else after them. This is true of the Mormons. It is true of the Jehovah's Witnesses. And it is abundantly true of the Roman Catholic "church." It means that all these are believing in and preaching "another Jesus," one who cannot save. And that means they are to be considered accursed and avoided, as the apostles themselves said about anybody who tries to twist their teachings this way. The problem that we believers in the true Jesus have
trying to discuss biblical issues with catholics and all
cultists is that we start by assuming we are talking
about the same Jesus. Based on that false
assumption, we go on to try to persuade our opponents. But
this just leads to empty discussions that go nowhere
forever. It's because we are not talking about the same
Jesus. We talk about the Jesus presented in full context
of the minds of the apostles; they talk about a Jesus
created by men off of select, isolated portions of what
the apostles said based on their own presumptive
authority. It is a false Jesus. No discussion with
cultists can ever become profitable until the cultists
bow to the authority of the context of mind presented by
the original apostles.
So if you are going to discuss anything about "Jesus" with a Roman Catholic, you must insist that they be willing to examine and believe the complete contexts of the words of the Bible writers alone, and set aside anything else believed from any other basis, whether what some "priest" or "pope" said or some supposed "experience" occurred like a "Marian apparition" or an "angelic vision" (which Paul also condemns in Galatians 1:8 as a basis for believing what is true.) So before you go any further with your mother, take all
this to the Lord first and get a hold of it. Understand
that you and she are not talking about the same Jesus. And
labor toward getting agreement from her to consider only
the scriptures in their full mental context. Then stick to
that alone. Always ask, "what does the complete
scripture say?"and "what did the first disciples
believe about what they heard Jesus say?" and "where
is your evidence from the apostles' complete words for
what you are believing?"
If she is not willing to do that, and until she is willing, you can't have a profitable discussion with her about spiritual things. She has to come to the place of recognizing that everything she has believed and been taught about this other "Jesus" by the Catholic church is false, and that she is therefore the one who has no assurance of any salvation. Because salvation can only come through the true Jesus. Let me wrap up just by making general observations
about the idea of a "Roman Catholic Church." Again,
just because some religious organization exists massively
worldwide "in God's name" doesn't say or prove anything
about it's being from God or that it has God's approval,
even if it arises out of something God indeed started.
There is nothing in the words of Jesus or the apostles (our
only authority) to predict that a single
worldwide "church" based out of any particular city and
led by a single man at the top of a hierarchical structure
would become the one true "heir apparent" of the message
of salvation above and apart from all the other churches
founded by all the apostles.
If such were to have been true, the apostles would have not only predicted it to come but would have made preparation for its arrival in their writings. And they would have specifically had to affirm that Rome was to be the site of such said worldwide church to which all the others planted by all the other apostles in Africa and India and Eastern Europe and throughout the world thereafter must submit and recognize as the single gateway to salvation for all mankind. Instead, we find rather the opposite, in which Jesus teaches all the apostles that they are to be at the bottom of every church body in servitude, and none of them (including Peter) is ever to be Lord or Father ("papa" / "pope") or Master over the rest of them! Moreover, the church at Rome does not even make the list of seven churches named by Jesus to prophetically typify His dealings with His universal church worldwide until His coming! (What does that tell you?) Throughout their writings, Jesus and the apostles only
referred to churches "at" various cities. They
never named a church after a worldly city. Therefore the
idea of naming any church a "Roman Catholic [universal]
Church" could only be a purely human concoction
based on a religious spirit. It has no spiritual authority
derived from any apostolic writing. It's authority
therefore can only be self-proclaimed. The fact that such
religious hierarchy claims a monopoly on the name of Jesus
and the Bible embellished by their own doctrines and
commandments is thus a totally false claim. (It's no
different than the completely contorted Pharisaic Jewish
system Jesus completely condemned which
nevertheless stemmed from the true original Mosaic
Law which they claimed to own.)
But the question arises then, if the Roman Catholic
Church has no such pedigree rooted in the prophecies and
apostolic writings that give it legitimacy, yet it is
indeed such a massive worldwide organization as to be
considered the leading "Christian church" throughout the
world during this entire church age, must there not be
some reference to it in the prophetic apostolic writings
somewhere??
Well, in fact there is. There is an entire section at
the end of the Book of Revelation dedicated to describing
a worldwide religious city and filthy-rich system that is
"drunk with the blood of the saints," is called the
"mother of harlots," being the home to every
hateful and detestable idolatrous thing known to God, and
is said to sit on "seven hills," being recognized
to be the city that rules over all the kings of the earth
at the time that book was written!
Well, there is only one city referred to as the "City of Seven Hills" which was the seat of world power at the time Revelation was written and which remains recognized throughout this age as the seat of religious power worldwide, and which earned the reputation of being the bloody persecutor of all true saints who refused its religious authority for hundreds of years, and which is completely characterized by the worship (called "veneration") of relics, statutes, beads, saints and is indeed filthy rich to the hilt, having been the driver of world commerce for centuries prior to America. That is and can be none other than the Roman Catholic Church, which God calls all His ignorant and deceived sheep to flee! (Rev. 18:4. Revelation names this religious city system "Babylon." Is it not interesting then that Peter, who is recognized to have gone to Rome, referred to his location as Babylon! (I Pt. 5:13)). So that is the big picture Sue. All the other immediate
issues like the eucharist and rosary and prayers to the
saints and veneration of "Mary" (who is really the
Babylonian goddess Semiramis) are trees inside this larger
forest. You won't convince your mother over any one of
these particular issues. You can discuss the eucharist,
certainly, but you want to see the greater spiritual
blinding power at work behind this worldwide cult that
denies the truth of the apostolic writings alone, and pray
into that. Pray for the exposure of that and stand
solely on the simple authority of the apostles' complete
writings which cannot be broken. Then see what God does.
We will agree with you for this!
&&&&&&&&&& Chris Anderson First
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